在加拿大经验了近3年的居家监禁生活后，华为首席财务官孟晚舟当前曾经平安返回华夏。孟和美国相干法院完成缓起诉合同，美国也撤回对她的引渡申请。对此，CGTN主办人田薇独家专访了著名热销书《美国陷阱》的作者、前法国阿尔斯通团体市场和出售总监弗雷德里克 皮耶鲁奇（Frédéric Pierucci）。皮耶鲁奇是全世界知名的“吹哨人”，专门揭露美国的“长臂管辖”难题。由于他早年就亲身经验了美国政府应用“长臂管辖”、《反国外腐败法》等司法武器，拿公权力和国度暴力，打击美国公司商业竞争对手。皮耶鲁奇说：这次华夏以国度意志对抗美国“长臂管辖”，为全球立下了标杆。他以为，其余国度尽管此刻不说，可是内心必定感官深切。未来面临美国的“长臂管辖”，要像华夏一样据理力争，才有出路。 田薇：华为创始人任正非的长女孟晚舟，安全回到华夏。听到这种信息，您做何感想？ Tian Wei: What do you make of the latest development with Ms Meng Wanzhou, the eldest daughter of Ren Zhengfei, founder of Huawei? 弗雷德里克 皮耶鲁奇:在很长一段时间里，她必定以前饱受煎熬，赫然，这对全部人来讲皆是一种十分踊跃的结果。这件事表达，假如一国政府乐意为之付出不懈努力，能够相当大水平上推进此类事故的解决。在咱看来，这标记着华夏的一种庞大胜利，由于这切实是首次以一种国度的意志，成功回击了美国的这类长臂管辖。 Frederic Pierucci: I think this is the end of a very longer period for her, which should have been very stressed. So obviously, this is a very positive outcome for everybody. And it shows that when the State is taking this thing into its own hands, you know, it can help a lot in both kinds of cases. So for me, I see this is a very huge win for China, because it's really the first time, but the country stand up to the long-arm jurisdiction of the United States in such a way. 田薇：弗雷德，孟女子无认罪，但她却签定了一份延期起诉合同。在你看来，这意指着甚么呢？ Tian Wei: Fred, she did not plead guilty, but she did use a DPA (Deferred Prosecution Agreement). What does that mean? 弗雷德里克 皮耶鲁奇：这意指着面临各式指控，她并未认罪。她不过承认了美国对这种案件的实是陈述，但无认罪。据咱理解 这类延期起诉合同平常适用于企业，而非适用于私人。私人与司法部签定延期起诉合同是十分少见的事宜。实是上，在全部所谓《反国外腐败法》案件中，咱从未瞧过这样的先例。这表达谈判进程十分艰难，况且美国司法部在完成这类合同时确信做了不少让步。总之，这意指着她没认罪，还不会被断定为有罪。这意指着，只需她遵守延期起诉合同的条款，美国将在一年后，也便是2022年12月，撤销对她的起诉。 Frederic Pierucci: It means that she didn't plead guilty of the counts that she was prosecuted for. So she admitted to a statement of facts. But she did not plead guilty. So this kind of agreement, deferred prosecution agreement, usually it's reserved for corporations, not for individuals. It's very, very unique that an individual can enter into a deferred prosecution agreement with the Department of Justice. In fact, for instance, in all Foreign Corrupt Practice Act cases, I have never seen such a thing. It shows that the negotiation has been very, very tough, and that the department of justice has really bent a lot to acco毫米odate this kind of agreement. So basically, it means that she has not pled guilty. So she's not recognized as guilty. And it means that if she abides to the term of the deferred prosecution agreement, the United States are going to cancel the indictment against her in one year from now, in December of 2022. 田薇：弗雷德，这自然非同正常。但咱理解到，从美方全无依据地逮捕你的那天起，到你离开监狱的那天，你也经受过不少煎熬。是否谈谈那时你的处境？是甚么终归导致你做出了后来的打算（所谓认罪）？ Tian Wei: And that makes a huge difference of course, Fred. But I know that you were struggling so much throughout the process from the day when they tried to catch you with unfounded circumstances to the day that you left the prison. Tell me more about how you struggled and what eventually led you to make the decision that you did. 弗雷德里克 皮耶鲁奇：咱无孟女子那末幸运，咱的企业并未向咱提供那末强盛的扶持，咱的祖国也无给咱提供强盛的扶持。因而，在几个月的监禁后，咱真的感觉十分孤独。假如咱想幸免在美国的监狱中度过然后的15年，那末咱就必需做出后来的抉择。因而，咱的概况与她有着相当大的差异。咱从孟晚舟事故中观看到，全个华为企业从头到尾全在扶持她。同一时间在外交范畴，华夏可能也为完成这项合同付出了相当大的努力。你还要清楚，咱的案件产生在2013到2014年。那时全球列国对美国的长臂管辖还缺乏理解。在阿尔斯通案此前，本来曾经产生过少许相似的案件，但许多数人全没有注意到。直到阿尔斯通案产生后，法国才修改“反腐败法”来庇护法国企业。 Frederic Pierucci: I didn't have the chance to have my company’s support like she had, and I didn't have a chance to have my country’s support like she had. So after a few months of incarceration, I realized that I was really alone and that if I wanted to avoid spending the last 15 years in prison in the United States, I had to do the choices that I made. So this is a huge difference. What I have seen in the Huawei case is that the whole company was behind her from beginning to the end. And also diplomatically, China probably did a lot of things to come to this kind of agreement. What you have to remember is that my case occurred in 2013 and 2014. At that time, the world was not so aware of the long-arm jurisdiction of the United States. There have been a few cases before the Alstom case, but those cases were unnoticed by most of the people. Even in France, we had to wait until the Alstom case in order to change the French anti-corruption law to protect French company, and so on. 田薇：咱记得孟女子得知本人可行回国后，谈来过去近两年半的时间里她碰到了重重困难，但她也谈到即便是乌云边上也可行有银线。以咱关于你话语的了解，你仿佛也得出了相似的结论。 Tian Wei: I remember Ms Meng after she knew she could go back to China, she talked about the past almost two and half years as absolutely disruptive moment of her life, but she also talked about every cloud has its own silver lining. If I understand what you just said, it seems that you are reaching similar conclusions. 弗雷德里克 皮耶鲁奇：是的，咱以为她一直在坚持不懈地抗争，而这须要非凡的勇气。昨日（孟晚舟女子回国）产生的事宜切实令人振奋。是以咱以为她抉择不放弃是正确之举。回顾往日两年半的时间，她本人、她的家人、她的父亲，以及全部人都一定会百感交集。或许到头来，无全部一种欧洲国度会讲出去，但每私人心里深处都应当为此个结局感觉欣慰。由于这切实是首次有国度正面回击美国疯狂的长臂管辖。实是上，这件事将使众多其它国度受益，前提是它们有勇气做同样的抗争，起身反抗美国的做法。关于未来，让咱们一同拭目以待，这起事故将有望成为历史性转折点。反观今天，这其实不意指着一切都会好起来，由于咱以为美国不会停止将法律用作经济武器。虽说如许，至少此刻咱们见到，那种做法会受到坚决的回击。 Frederic Pierucci: Yeah, I think she was amazingly courageous also to continue to fight back. And yesterday's result is really amazing. So I think she did the right thing not to give up. Those 2.5 years have been also very, very complicated for her, for her family, for her father, for everybody. At the end of the day, no European country will say this, but everybody deep down should feel grateful to what is happening here, because it's really one of the first time that a country is really standing up to the United States to stop this craziness of long-arm jurisdiction. In fact, this will benefit a lot of other countries providing they have the courage to do the same thing, stand up and fight back. Let's see what happened, but this is probably going to hopefully going to be a turning point. Now, it doesn't mean that everything would be easier now, because I think the United States will not stop choosing their law as an economic weapon, but at least now we see they could get some response to this.
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